Liverpool & South West Lancs Genealogy

Family History in the Hundred of West Derby
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PostPosted: 09:01:08 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Can anyone help me with the maiden name of Thomas Fearns wife. Fearns often spelt Fearns, Ferns, Fearnes, Fern, Fairns.
I have the marriage cert. Thomas Ferns, Hawker, married Catherine McGaa 18 July 1854 Parish Church, Liverpool.
His address is Banastre Street, Liverpool. Father John Ferns, also a Hawker. All this is correct.
Catherine McGaa, Milton Street, Liverpool. Father is John McGaa a carter. Both are minors.
On free BMD, Thomas Ferns possible marriage to Catherine McGaa or Catherine Daley. But came back the McGaa name.
Here come the problem.
Son John baptised 1854. Father - Thomas Ferns - Mother - Catherine Daly. No address.
Son Thomas birth cert says, born 1856, Father Thomas Fearns - Mother - Catherine McGathern. Address is Banastre Street, Liverpool.
Daughter Margaret birth cert says, born 1858, Father - Thomas Fearns, Mother - Catherine McGawan. Address Banastre Street. R C Baptism says Father - Thomas Fearns, spelt Ferins, Mother - Catherine Daly. But the birth date is recorded as 22 Sept 1858 , not the 6 Oct as on her birth cert.
Son Henry birth cert says, born 1860, Father - Thomas Fearns, Mother - Catherine Daly. Address Banastre Street. R C Baptism says Father - Thomas Fearns, Mother - Catherine Daly. But the birth date is recorded as 5 Oct 1860 , not the 13 as on his birth cert.
Daughter Catherine R C Baptised 1864. Father Thomas Fearns, Mother - Catherine Fearns. She died June 1864. burial address is Banastre Street.
Mary Ann, R C baptised 1869. Father Thomas Fearns, Mother - Catherine Daly. No address.
The fathers occupation on the birth certs are recorded as Hawker. Which ties in ok.
Many of the marriage certs for the children also tie in correctly with Thomas and with the witnesses etc. They match with other family members.
So who is Catherine?. Is she Mcgaa, McGathern, McGawan or Dal(e)y.
Can anyone help with checking the marriage cert incase of a transcrpt error. (I rang the Liverpool records office, they say its correct. No Catherine Daley)
I cannot even find Catherine Mcgaa, McGathern, McGawan on the census, or her parents or any other siblings etc) She states on 1861 census, Living at Banastre Street with Thomas and kids, that she was born about 1838 in Liverpool. I wonder if she may be Irish.
Please help me if you can.
Thanks Maxine


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PostPosted: 10:31:40 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Hi and welcome to the forum

Found other marriages that may just help with searches, will post them for now...

On Ancestry
Christiana McGaa
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date:
16 Jul 1851
Parish: Liverpool St Bride
Spouse's Name: John Bell, Fulle Age, Spirit Dealer
Father's Name: Robert McGaa, Master Mariner
Spouse Father's Name: Edward Bell, deceased, Master Mariner

Lancs BMD
1866
MCGAA John
LOGAN Janet
Liverpool, St. Matthew
Liverpool 2116LP/1/152


1879
MCGAA Janet
ALLEN John
Edge Hill, St. Mary
Liverpool
2043WD/10/190

Simone x

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PostPosted: 15:06:00 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Hi Maxine

does it give a house number for Milton Street, I have just had a virual stroll down the street in 1851 there were definalty no McGaa's living there then, nothing remotely looking like that name either..

I found at 2 Court 8 House Milton St
Biddy Daily Widow age 50 b Ireland
Ellen Daily UM age 48 b Ireland

14 Court 8 House Milton St
Patrick Daly age 27 b Wicklow
Bridget age 27 b Rosscommon
Thomas age ? Months b Lpool
Edward age ? Months b Lpool

You never know one of these maybe connected just keep them in mind for now..

In 1841 Addison St right by Banastre & Milton Streets
Michael McGaugh aged 30 Egg Dealer born Ireland
Ann age 30 b Ireland
Catherine age 3 b Liverpool

I know its not a John but another family that maybe connected, Could be Michael dies and Ann remarries a Daly Daily Dailey etc..
there seems nothing much out there for the surname McGaa more likely McGough

xx

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PostPosted: 15:13:08 Tue 01/May/2012 
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I think you should go with the Catherine McGaa, the name on the marriage certificate verified by the Registry Office.

If you check the actual GRO Marriage Index itself you will see that there are marriages for a Catherine McGaa and a Catherine Daley listed in the same qtr of 1854 [September] in Volume 8b, Page 31. Each appears to have married a Thomas Ferns.

The surname McGaa is faint but being alphabetical it has to be McGaa, while the surname Daley is quite clear. There were two marriages so this would explain the baptisms albeit with coincidental names for some children. Perhaps the Daley/Ferns marriage is in the Ancestry collection for Liverpool. The parentage would confirm which is which.

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PostPosted: 15:35:00 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Just checked the 1901 census for Ireland and didn't get a single hit on McGaa. Unusual for a name to die out completely. Then did a check on Scotland's People in 1851 and got 5 matches for female McGaa. Looks like it could be a Scots name?

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Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
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PostPosted: 16:04:29 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Yes i'm with you Brian.. a Scots name, possibly McGaw, looking at other census entries :idea:

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PostPosted: 16:16:59 Tue 01/May/2012 
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I know you may have already given the entry for John above, (Ignore the date of birth transcribed by Ancestry as being 1854, it refers to the entry above I believe)
Born 6th May, baptised 3rd June, 1855 John, child of Thomas Fairns and Catherine Daley
Godparents James Fairns and Mary Ann McClu..ky

A couple of points to think about - on the 1861 census are ALL the children you have found to Thomas Fearns accounted for? If not have you found deaths for them all, or could they be with another family?

Have you looked into James Fairns and the relationship with YOUR Thomas? and the same for godparents of the other children too?

PS to DickieSam, no I don't think either marriage is found on Ancestry, assuming that Maxine has an original copy she has ordered from the Register Office or GRO - or .... her comment about the "Record Office" confirming the entry, was that an error? or did they indeed check the parish register?

IF it was the original certificate, has Maxine seen the Parish Register, I would be curious to know if it differs - is it possible that Catherine had previously been married to a Daley?

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PostPosted: 16:30:56 Tue 01/May/2012 
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RE:
Quote:
PS to DickieSam, no I don't think either marriage is found on Ancestry, assuming that Maxine has an original copy she has ordered from the Register Office or GRO - or .... her comment about the "Record Office" confirming the entry, was that an error? or did they indeed check the parish register?

If it was the original certificate, has Maxine seen the Parish Register, I would be curious to know if it differs - is it possible that Catherine had previously been married to a Daley?

Given her age at 1861 she was quite young when she married [16ish and possible pregnant?]. Hardly time to be married, divorced [hardly likely] or widowed. It is possible her mother had married twice so would have been a Daley formerly McGaa, or other way around. But, there are two Thomas 'Ferns' marriages in the same qtr, both to a Catherine; one is McGaa and the other is a Daley.

OR! Has Maxine got the wrong marriage cert? :oops:

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PostPosted: 16:33:45 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Are these the children do you think? Thought witnesses may give us a clue :wink: :?

Image

Thomas FEARNS?

Image

Henry Fearns?

Image


John FEARNS?

Image

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PostPosted: 16:40:58 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Good find Mary :)

here is the entry... I think it says McClusky... little faint bit underneath looks like 'ky'

Image

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PostPosted: 16:46:59 Tue 01/May/2012 
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The marraige for Henry right anyway because it is Milton Street for address :wink:

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PostPosted: 19:49:48 Tue 01/May/2012 
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dickiesam wrote:
But, there are two Thomas 'Ferns' marriages in the same qtr, both to a Catherine; one is McGaa and the other is a Daley.

Not only the same quarter, but also the same Volume and Page which, unless they were related and had a double wedding, I would be skeptical about - too much of a coincidence for my liking. I would suspect that it is more an error on the part of the index compiler.

LancsBMD has only the one, to Catherine McGaa and strangely no Catherine Daley.

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PostPosted: 20:23:35 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Hi Maxine

Can you put the marriage cert on here


xx

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PostPosted: 20:38:15 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Hi

There is one Catherine Daly aged 15 b Ireland on the 1851 living with Uncle Peter Dunne Shoemaker b Kildare 1817 and Aunty Bridget Dunne at Bevington Bush, shes a Bonnet Maker..
Its the right area Bevington Bush runs down by Milton Street & Banastre St..

1861 They live on Marybone with a son named John Dunne born c1852 and Peters brother Arthur Dunne whos 24 also a Shoemaker..

xx

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PostPosted: 21:28:35 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Marriages Sept qtr 1854....

This is the entry for Catherine Daley...
Image

And 2 Thomas Ferns....
Image

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PostPosted: 21:44:05 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Here's the reg under McGaa

Image

really hard to see. but if I tilt my screen on image on Ancestry it is cleary McGaa..

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PostPosted: 22:06:25 Tue 01/May/2012 
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I agree they all look the same - but I think it would be too much of a coincidence for the two Thomas Ferns not to be related if they were married together.

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PostPosted: 22:20:18 Tue 01/May/2012 
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MaryA wrote:
I agree they all look the same - but I think it would be too much of a coincidence for the two Thomas Ferns not to be related if they were married together.

I wonder how many entries could the Registrar fit onto one of his 'ledger' pages?

Post edited to remove incorrect information!

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Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
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Last edited by dickiesam on 23:50:31 Tue 01/May/2012, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 22:21:49 Tue 01/May/2012 
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curveycat1 wrote:
I cannot even find Catherine Mcgaa, McGathern, McGawan on the census, or her parents or any other siblings etc) She states on 1861 census, Living at Banastre Street with Thomas and kids, that she was born about 1838 in Liverpool. I wonder if she may be Irish.
Please help me if you can.
Thanks Maxine



what spelling are they under in 1861... what's the census ref?

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PostPosted: 22:25:11 Tue 01/May/2012 
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Quote:
="dickiesam
If you type just the qtr, volume and page into FreeBMD this is what comes up...
Marriages Sep 1854:
GIDMAN, Sarah - Liverpool - 8b - 36
Grey, William - Liverpool - 8b - 36
McGa*, Catherine - Liverpool - 8b - 36
Mullin, Catherine - Liverpool - 8b - 36
O'Donnell, Thomas - Liverpool - 8b - 36

If you search for a Fearns marriage on Findmypast...
DALEY, Catherine; HANNAH, Margaret; MCGAA, Catherine
One of the above married one of these grooms...
BAKER, William; FERNS, Thomas; Ferns, Thomas.

shouldn't it be 8b 31

Baker William Liverpool 8b 31
DALEY Catherine Liverpool 8b 31
Ferns Thomas Liverpool 8b 31
Ferns Thomas Liverpool 8b 31
Hannah Margaret Liverpool 8b 31
McGaa Catherine Liverpool 8b 31

lol What's she doing on 2 pages :roll: the image for McGa* on Ancestry gave me the one I posted earlier, but looks clearly like page :? 31 to me

Simone x

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