Liverpool & South West Lancs Genealogy

Family History in the Hundred of West Derby
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PostPosted: 00:26:19 Sat 16/Jul/2011 
My grandfather was born (c1869) and married in Liverpool. I have a copy of his medal record card for WW1 - John Marshall, Driver, Royal Field Artillery 24751. (His previous occupation was Carter).

The medal card indicates -

Campaign 1914-15
Theatre of War (1) France
Qualifying date 21-12-14

When his first wife died in August 1918 he was the informant on her death certificate and his occupation was detailed as Royal Field Artillery - Driver.

I know so little about my grandfather as he and my grandmother (his second wife) separated in the 1930's and he died about 1940, before I was born. It is thought that he left Liverpool and went to Nottingham where he may be buried. My mother who is also now deceased, knew very little about her father. I would dearly love to know more about this man, his burial place and his WW1 record.

I have not been able to trace any service records for him and I really need the advice and guidance of the experienced members of this forum.


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PostPosted: 09:27:28 Sat 16/Jul/2011 
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We may be able to discover more about him through the censuses if we have more details. Can you give us the information from his marriage certificate, which will have his father's name and occupation on it.

In case any of our military experts are able to read any more into the medal card, here it is below. Is the number 24751 or 24731? I know which Ancestry thinks it is but they have only transcribed, they don't know for certain.

Can you tell us how you know that this man is definitely your John? Do you already have information of the regiment he was in?

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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives


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PostPosted: 10:45:46 Sat 16/Jul/2011 
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Good morning Bella.
You seem to have done a lot of research and probably know that about 60% of WW1 soldiers' records were destroyed in the WW2 blitz.
The details on the medal index card show that he served through the war - not discharged as a result of wounds, or he would have been given a silver wound badge. His date of arrival in France probably means he was a regular soldier, or a reservist with previous service as a regular, called up on the outbreak. The numbers and letters against the medal entries are references to Medal Rolls, held only at the National Archives at Kew, not online. You will have to visit or get someone to look for you. They may give details of his RFA Brigade and Battery (unit and sub-unit). That could lead to tracing the unit's movements, and possibly to a war diary - again at the National Archives, but some of them are online.
Have you come across this website -
http://www.1914-1918.net/
It is very useful for background on WW1 in general, and on tracing individuals.
A driver in the RFA would have been one of those on horseback, riding one of six horses hauling a gun into and out of action, and looking after the horse. This was a less glamorous version of the present-day displays of the King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery, who appear on the Queen's Birthday Parades and other displays.
Have you looked in FREEBMD for a possible death? That could lead to a date and location.
Daggers

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PostPosted: 12:22:43 Sun 17/Jul/2011 
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Hi could you tell us why you mention Nottingham?
Also the name of his first wife who died in 1918.
We may be able to find them and any kiddies in the census after 1901.
Thank you
Tina

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Any census/bmd information within this post is Crown Copyright from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


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PostPosted: 13:54:35 Sun 17/Jul/2011 
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I think this is our man on the 1911 Census on Family Search:-

https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... 0372757426


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PostPosted: 14:29:06 Sun 17/Jul/2011 
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There are two possible death indexes in Nottingham the one in 1941 looks like the better match to me:-

Name: John Marshall
District: Nottingham
Year: 1939
Quarter: Oct/Nov/Dec
Age: 71
Volume: 7B
Page: 641

Name: John Marshall
District: Nottingham
Year: 1941
Quarter: Apr/May/Jun
Age: 71
Volume: 7B
Page: 395


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Holland, Atkinson, Reeves, Mylchreest, Harvey, Brady, Naylor, Arnold, Reid, Brookfield, Albach, Corrin, Grogan, Jones, Atherton, Garrett, Bellion, McCaughan, Keed, Moorhouse, Willetts, McGuinness, Nelson, Wright, Hughes, Brooking, Kelly


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PostPosted: 19:35:07 Sun 17/Jul/2011 
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Here is a reply I received to a query about this Gunner and his possible unit on the Great War Forum:
"The only RFA Brigades that went over to France in December 1914 that I am aware of were the 1st, the 19th and the 20th, all part of the 27th Division. I do not have an exact disembarkation date.
The LLT has the following:
As regular units from the further garrisons of Empire arrived back in England, many having waited until a Territorial unit had gone out to replace them, they were formed up into three Divisions, numbered 27th to 29th. The 27th was formed at Magdalen hill Camp near Winchester in November-December 1914 and was rushed as a much-needed reinforcement to France. Shortage of some types of units were filled by Territorial units taken from other Divisions. It embarked at Southampton and landed at Le Havre on 20-23 December 1914 and then moved to concentrate in the area between Aire and Arques. "

If it was the 27th Division which Marshall fought with, their first action appears to have been The Action of St Eloi, 14/15 March 1915 [part of the Summer Operations of that year], and then the Battles of Ypres 1915. I have not been able to trace the actions of the 27th Division after that period, and in any case much of the Field Artillery was reorganised for the second half of the War and I have no details.
D

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PostPosted: 12:37:50 Mon 18/Jul/2011 
Thank you for all your wonderful replies and I will certainly get back to you all very shortly.
Unfortunately, I do not have an internet connection at home until a problem with our telephone line is fixed (contractor digging things up).

I am currently at the library using a computer but hopefully will be back on line at home shortly. Until then, please excuse me, I will get back to you asap.

PS I know my grandfather's Reg. No. from his medals (which my brother has) - 24751

Thanks again and please be patient with me and BT, talk soon. Bella X


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PostPosted: 15:11:12 Mon 18/Jul/2011 
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Bella wrote:
PS I know my grandfather's Reg. No. from his medals (which my brother has) - 24751


That's perfect, can't be any better proof.

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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives


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PostPosted: 11:00:47 Sun 24/Jul/2011 
Hi again everyone, connection problems solved (I hope) so to get back to my grandfather, Jack Marshall. Probably best to tell you a bit more.

I have a record of marriage for Jack’s father and mother, Robert-ggfather and Ellen-ggmother in 1868, so I know a little of the family (Jack was the eldest of 5 children in 1881 census)

I have grandfather on Liverpool census 1881 aged 12 (Eldon Street/Court),
census 1901 aged 31, married with 3 children (Penrhyn Street?)
and aged 43 with 6 children in the 1911 census.

I have his first marriage cert. aged 24 - Fireman (1895) and some of his children’s birth details as well as his eldest daughter’s death details in 1910 (aged 14 ).
I also have his first wife’s (also Ellen) death details (1918).


My grandfather married my grandmother in 1919 aged 47, she was 28 and he had three more children (including my Mum) - all now passed on.

My grandfather appears to have worked for the railway (carter –1901 and 1911 census (LNWRy) and my cousin has a watch of his inscribed

"Presented to J Marshall, by his colleagues at Canada Dock LMS on his retirement. January 1934”.

This is a brief outline of what I know about Jack Marshall (together with details already supplied).

I would love to access further military records or anything which might tell me where exactly he served and any information which might lead to his burial place, (any information on rail records would also be helpful).

I only know that after he and my grandmother separated he is believed to have moved to the Nottingham area and died there. I do not know much more about his first family and although some of them were very young when their mother died, my mother and her sisters knew little of them.

I have recently visited The Somme, paying tribute to another family relative who died there. It was an emotional experience and it is so important now that I find out what I can about my grandfather’s life in general and his war years in particular.

I am currently following up on links you have already supplied and thank you for all the very useful information you have given me so far and look forward to your further replies and any more help you can give me.

PS.


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